4-2-3-1 if i was in charge in 2011-12 and the stars aligned

Discussion in 'Team Formation' started by jputt, Aug 22, 2011.

  1. jputt New Member

    jputt
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    With 9 days until the transfer window closes and things going kind of slowly I thought I'd let you guys see what I think of how the squad should line up for the majority of the season.

    After hearing that Luka's "head isn't right" to face the champions,Man U, I've decided I'm over him.I know he's been outstanding for 2 and a half seasons for us but even Harry has said it might be beneficial to cash in on the 30+ million pound on offer.

    I know everybody has an opinion of who they'd like to see bought and sold,and I know i'ts not as simple as opening the doors to Spurs lodge but this is my wish list of incomings and outgoings and how they would line up in the 2011-12 EPL seaon.I'm being very realistic in this list,with players who have been linked to moves both to us and away from us. No Messis,Ronaldos or Rooneys are in my plans.

    OUTModric
    Palacios
    Crouch
    Bentley
    Jenas
    Dos SantosHutton



    IN
    S.Parker
    L.Diarra
    Adebayor
    Benayoun
    G.Cahill
    --------------------------------------GK---------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------Gomes------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------Cudicini-----------------------------------
    ------------------------------------Friedel------------------------------------

    LB-------------------CB------------------------ ---CB----------------------RB

    BAE---------------Dawson------------------------King----- ----------Walker
    Bassong-----------Gallas------------------------Kaboul--------------Corluka
    --------------------Cahill

    ---------------------CM----------------------------CM--------------------------
    -------------------Parker----------------------Huddlestone--------------------
    -------------------Diarra------------------------Kranjcar-----------------------
    -------------------Sandro----------------------Livermore----------------------

    LM-------------------------------CAM-----------------------------------------RM
    Bale-------------------------Van Der Vaart------------------------------Lennon
    Pienaar-----------------------------------------------------------------Benayoun
    Rose-------------------------------------------------------------------Townsend

    ------------------------------------ST---------------------------------------------
    ----------------------------------Defoe--------------------------------------------
    --------------------------------Adebayor------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------Pavylachenko---------------------------------------

    Obviously my prefered formation is a 4-2-3-1.The back 4 would not change much at all with the usual suspects of BAE,Dawson,King (lets all prey he can get one game in a week) and either the fairly reliable Corluka or the ever improving,enthusiastic and energetic Walker.Kaboul and Gallas will provide the cover and depth at centre half needed to sustain a 50 plus game season while Bassong survives because of a lack of alternatives at left back,although Danny Rose did fill in there last season in front of Bassong.Gary Cahill would be bought in now to ease him into the squad in the view to replace both King and Gallas after their inevitable retirments in the next couple of seasons.He's experienced,a leader,English and at 25 his best years are ahead of him.
    In the centre of midfield Sandro,Diarra or Parker would provide the steel and work rate in the central pair while Huddlestone,Kranjcar or the youngster Livermore would be the playmaker who provides the spark and vision to unleash an attacking trio that will provide support and chances for a lone striker.Parker is thought to be a risk because of his age and re-sale value but after an outstanding year at West Ham last campaign he surely is worth the 8 million pricetage.He's now a proven international who gives 110% every minute he plays and could provide great education for the likes of Sandro,Hud and Livermore and another leader in a squad that may be without King and Gallas at times.Diarra would be a world class edition at his best,and the best form of his career arguably came at Pompey under Redknapp and at 26 he has plenty of years left in front of him.
    Bale,VDV and Lennon have the attacking job if all are fit and on form with Pienaar,Benayoun and the super versatile Kranjcar providing cover for the star trio.The two youngsters Townsend and Rose will add extra depth outwide and will continue to be blooded in by Harry in the cups and Europe to give his main men rest during the season.Benayoun will come in in the Modric deal and at 31 people may see it as a useless addition but as a back up to the starting trio and with the ability to fit into all 3 roles if needed it could be a very effective and cheap alternative to keeping hold of Bentley,Dos Santos or Jenas if he can stay fit and find his West Ham form.
    Upfront Defoe has shown in pre-season and against Hearts that he is determined to put last seasons poor season in front of goal behind him and prove his critics wrong.He link well with VDV and Rafa is one of the few stars the team is being built around.I admit I'm not Peter Crouch's biggest fan and I would let Stoke take the lanky strike for the 9m they r offering.In his place Adebayor would come in on loan and if he produces the kind of form he did in his first few season in England and take a paycut,the 12m fee to make the deal permanent would be a steal and he would definitley be a step up from Crouch.Pav would stay and be 3rd in the pecking order if not fourth if we find another striker.I'd keep him ahead of Crouch because I think the only thing stopping him from being a success in England is his attitude and I've heard alot of talk in interviews and reports he has knuckled down and is determined to succeed.

    I know I'm goin to cop heaps for suggesting we sell Luka and take a few risks with the players I think we should bring in but it may improve the squad in both the short and long term.Last time we had a player force their way out we left it too long and shot ourselves in the foot.We had no one in the squad ready to replace Berbatov when he left and it showed when we only picked up 2 points in our first 8 games.This time around we have 2 other superstars in Bale and VDV that can ease the blow and transfer targets days away from signing who are proven star performers in the EPL in seasons past.We also proved against Hearts,i know its only Hearts,that we can perform without Luka.
    30 million for Modric could equal Benayoun (free),Adebayor (12m),Diarra (12m) and Parker (8m).32 million for 4 proven performers to replace Luka is pretty good business in my opinion.Plus whatever Harry can conjure up for the other fringe players for the defender we need and possibly another striker and it could be a very productive window.Crouch and Palicious to Stoke for 18m,Dos Santos to Sevilla for 5 or 6m and Jenas,Bentley and Hutton to whoever we can get money out of.

    Thats my opinion and its all hyperthetical so thanks for reading,whats your opinion on the situation?
    C'mon you Spurs.Look out De Gea!
  2. spurs17 New Member

    spurs17
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    not sure about the Huddlestone/Livermore/Kranjar selection in CM , definately need Modric there , creative and hardly loses the ball
    Although the 4231 definately suits VDV.
  3. SweSpurs massive bellend according to bigdub

    SweSpurs
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    We DEFINITELY need a playmaker if Modric leaves.
    Hard to get.. I think Montolivo could be good, he's in the best years of his career.
    Wouldn't cost much because hes contract is expending
  4. Irish Yid Pavlyuchenko Well-Known Member

    Irish Yid Pavlyuchenko
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    We do play this formation already, Also known as a 4-5-1
  5. Dtrain23 New Member

    Dtrain23
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    This is essentially what we played at OT last night - the problem is that when we went behind and brought pav and Huddlestone on for Livermore and Kranjcar we were left exposed in midfield, I think it could work against lesser teams and with more suitable/ fit players for those roles. it is very similar to the 4-5-1 and is a little like Man City although I don't think quite as turgid.
  6. BrunaSpurs Well-Known Member

    BrunaSpurs
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    I think I'm really starting to warm to this formation, England used a similar formation against bulgaria with Parker and Barry (Sandro/Thudd) as holding midfielders and then Downing (Lennon/VdV) Young (Bale/Niko) and Walcott (ModRICH/VdV) given a free roaming role behind Rooney (Ade) :)
  7. minno86 New Member

    minno86
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    agreed its defo a formation we have a squad for... plus good enough replacements for all the top 4 if needed rests etc
  8. Irish Yid Pavlyuchenko Well-Known Member

    Irish Yid Pavlyuchenko
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    This is silly, It's the same formation we're using atm.

    A proper 4-2-3-1 should have the Wide CAM's inverted.
  9. Rivron these are small those cows are far away

    Rivron
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  10. JacoZA Well-Known Member

    JacoZA
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  11. falstaff Well-Known Member

    falstaff
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    • Like Like x 1
  12. Rivron these are small those cows are far away

    Rivron
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    So that's the end of Defoe then.:302:
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  13. JacoZA Well-Known Member

    JacoZA
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    Yeah, and VDV and Modric vying for the same position coz in a 4-2-3-1 VDV deffo ain't a winger.
  14. spursman18 Moderator

    spursman18
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    Yet he wont be playing as a traditional winger in a 4 2 3 1, he'll be able to tuck in a bit more and have one of the two DM cover him if he gets beat defensively. Modric would be playing more of the central role in the 3, yet could easily interchange with VDV or Parker who would be one of the two DMs with Sandro next to him.
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  15. Rivron these are small those cows are far away

    Rivron
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    There's also the point about Sandro being able to cover the space as Walker bombs forward.
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  16. JacoZA Well-Known Member

    JacoZA
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    What about this:


    -- Bale --- Modric --- VDV>Lennon --

    --------Parker --- Sandro ----------


    for home/attacking games, and this:


    --- Bale --- VDV>Modric --- Lennon

    ------ Parker -------Sandro -------

    for away/holding games? (With VDV being subbed at 60-65)


    Maybe then a 4-4-2 (attacking) and 4-1-4-1 (holding) in Europa with the kids?

    p.s. Another good read: Why are two holding midfielders so crucial in the modern game? « The Arsenal Column
  17. Chorazin Well-Known Member

    Chorazin
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    Why are two holding midfielders so crucial in the modern game? « The Arsenal Column That is a great read, i to believe this should be Spurs main formation, with Parker, and Sandro playing a staggered holding midfield, with Huddlestone as the rotation player for injuries or when someone needs a rest in that holding role, then the decision has to be made about who will be playing up front in a narrow 3 with the width provided by BAE/Walker. Modric, Bale, VDV, Lennon, Kranjcar, Dos Santos, Pienaar are all worth a shout but i think i would have Bale, Modric, VDV as the attacking 3, and rotate according to injuries/fatigue.

    This of course will not be able to be utilised every game, Adebayor will need to be rested and as he is the only striker with the credentials to operate up top on his own it would see us revert to a more traditional 4-4-2 with Defoe and Pavlyuchenko up front, 2 pacey wingers and a Parker/Modric midfield, in this scenario i think i would prefer to see a Corluka over Walker as the width will be provided by Lennon down that flank and in this scenario there would be no room for Sandro, unless he is covering for an injured Parker, and no room for VDV as Defoe and Pavlyuchenko dont really operate as that lone striker up front.

    Deploying VDV on the wing in a traditional 4-4-2 is not for me an option, playing him on the right in a narrower 4-2-3-1 i think will be fine where his defensive duties are limited. And the fact that Sandro and Parker will be covering the space behind the top 4.
  18. StPaulSpur Well-Known Member

    StPaulSpur
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    Here's the question mark for me: 4-4-1-1 and 4-2-3-1 aren't all that different in terms of where the players line up. The main difference is that in 4-4-1-1 you build your attack up from further back and you rely more on pace and a deep-lying playmaker, whereas in 4-2-3-1 you have two destroyers at the back and the only buildup that ever happens is a destroy trying to find one of your three attacking mids or, if you have them, a fullback storming up the line. (Even here, I think the United 4-4-1-1 of Nani, Fletcher, Carrick, Giggs / Rooney / Hernandez ends up looking more like 4-2-3-1 then a 4-4-1-1.)

    So here's the main question for me: If your deep-lying playmaker is good enough at retaining possession, how necessary are two holding mids? Obviously Barca only plays one holding mid in their 4-3-3 and it works out just fine. So is Luka good enough (or perhaps is Parker or Sandro good enough?) to play a 4-4-1-1 with a midfield of Lennon, Modric, Parker/Sandro, Bale / VDV / Adebayor? It's obviously a significantly more open formation than what United does with Carrick and Fletcher in the middle or what City does with Barry and Milner, Toure, or De Jong at the back, but could it work?

    Also, could a 4-2-3-1 a la City even work at Spurs? I'd love to see it tried b/c I think it allows our best 11 players to be on the field at the same time (Friedel / Walker, Kaboul, King, BAE / Parker, Sandro / VDV, Modric, Bale / Adebayor) but I'm not sure we could make it work. How would Rafa and Luka do playing so close together? How would Bale do tucked in and in a more advanced role? 4-2-3-1 for Spurs is a very interesting possibility on paper, but right now I think I'd say we're better served playing a more open 4-4-1-1 that plays to the strengths of Luka as a deep-lying playmaker, Bale as a pacey wing player, and VDV as a creator who needs lots of space.
  19. Chorazin Well-Known Member

    Chorazin
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    Well after watching the Arsenal game and the dominance Arsenal had in midfield with 3 vs 2 in the first half i question the use of 2 strikers when you are having trouble getting the ball to them from midfield without resorting to route 1. Really Gervinho should have buried that shot, and the fact Arteta at 1/2 time had 21 completed passes to Modric's 10 tells me our midfield is being seriously put under pressure, who here would argue that Arteta is the better player out of him and Modric? To better get control of the midfield having Sandro in there would of helped immensely, then you have 3 on 3 Coquelin, Arteta, Ramsey vs Modric, Sandro, Parker, i know which 3 im putting money on to dominate.

    To me it felt like Defoe was a bit of a 5th wheel out there, and if he is having to drop deep all the time to get possession then why have the extra striker at all, why not just shore up the midfield by whacking a beast like Sandro in there. With an attacking 4 of Bale, Modric, VDV, Adebayor there is enough fire power to score goals if they have service. And out of our 2 holding midfielders Parker is no mug in picking passes, and Sandro certainly has a decent strike on him and can play that box to box style if necessary.

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