Could 3-5-2 get the best out of VdV?

Discussion in 'Team Formation' started by basskadet, Oct 9, 2010.

  1. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    I know that it is not the most popular formation in the world but before you dismiss it entirely, consider it with the current personnel we have at Tottenham.

    In terms of CBs, when everyone is fit, we have a very healthy selection of quality defenders. Even excluding Woodgate, who sadly looks finished, we have King, Kaboul, Gallas, Dawson & Bassong to pick from, & Charlie can play there also & might even do a better job in a 3 rather than a pair.

    1 thing that makes a 3-5-2 effective is having a pair of proper Wing-Backs. Wide players with plenty of energy & are equally adept at getting forwards as they are dropping back to defend. On the left we certainly have arguably the best potential WB in the Premier League with Gareth Bale. 3-5-2 formations are oft criticised because they become disjointed toward the end of matches when the wide players begin to tire. It requires tremendous amounts of energy on their part when they are expected to run back-and-forth the length of the pitch for 90min. However, Bale appears unaffected & is relentless in his forays forward & is repeatedly seen driving at the opposition's RB right into injury time. I would suggest that Bale is perhaps the perfect wide player for a 3-5-2 & that our lefthand side would be sorted.

    The right is deffo more of a concern. Lennon, altho better than other RW in the League at realising his defensive responsibilities, is a long way from being a WB. I still think, however, that when he is on top form he is so dangerous in attack that he pushes both his opposing LB & often his LW all the way back so that they can double up on the threat of his pace. Other than Lennon we are a little bit short on the right. Charlie is far too slow & defensive to work as a WB & Bentley is just as lightweight in his defensive duties as Lennon but does not offer that same pacey threat capable of pushing the opposition back which Azza does.

    That then allows us to play 2 CMs as well as an AM. Van der Vaart can take his favoured AM role & be behind a proper strike pairing that way. We would be lethal going forward, with the deliveries coming in from the flanks from Bale & Lennon, Crouchy winning the headers and either Lennon or VdV tucking them away. I could see us playing large portions of the game in the opposition's half & we would have 3 CBs mopping up whenever they try to hit us on the counter.

    ESPN: Could Spurs switch to a 3-5-2?
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  2. CmonyouSpurs Well-Known Member

    CmonyouSpurs
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    Perhaps Hutton would be a good candidate for the RWB spot? He is good offensively and decent enough to do a good defensive job, plus having 3 center halfs behind him would increase his confidence as they would be there to mop up if he messed up.

    Anyway I feel that VDV is already playing fantastically in our current setup, so I don't see why we should drastically change things now, especially considering the season is well and truly under way. Perhaps experiment with a few new strategies next pre-season.
  3. BlueCrew LA Moderator

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  4. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    Lol, I completely forgot Hutton!

    Hes played all our recent games & I still forgot about him! He would definitely be a good option &, between him & Azza, we deffo have a right side that could work in a 3-5-2 I think.

    VdV is playing great, but I don't really want to see us setting up in a 451/4411 at Home too often. VdV still says his best position is behind 2 strikers & when JD is back we would have added threat. The problem is, when playing with VdV as a 2nd striker, we rely too much on him to get us goals. Our strikers only have 1 league goal between them this season but Defoe will be a threat when he returns & I think we would be foolish not to utilise him. Thing is, Crouch & VdV have a great understanding & you wouldn't want to split that up either. This would mean we could make the most out of Crouch's partnership with both JD & VdV.
  5. BlueCrew LA Moderator

    BlueCrew LA
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    I do believe we need to figure out someway to get VDV, Crouchy and JD on the field at the same time. The 3-5-2 could work and our defense would probably better with 3 centre backs because unlike full backs they won't push up field. It would also serve in getting King, Gallas and Dawson on the field at the same time. If we went that route though we definitely would need to sign another CB for cover in January.
  6. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    I'm not sure we would need another CB in Jan tbh.

    Maybe if we went 3-5-2 consistently, but I would see us sticking with the 451/4411 when we play Away games. Regardless, as I said in the 1st post, we already have Kaboul & Bassong capable of dropping into a back 3 & Charlie would also do a job there, particularly on the right of the 3.



    -------------------------GOMES-----------------------
    --------DAWSON------KING--------GALLAS----------
    -----------------HUDDLESTONE-----------------------
    HUTTON---------------------MODRIC------------BALE
    -------------VAN DER VAART--------------------------
    ----------------DEFOE------------CROUCH-------------

    I personally quite like the look of that & it really beefs out the midfield
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  7. BlueCrew LA Moderator

    BlueCrew LA
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    I have no faith in Bassong at the moment how many times has he been owned this season. Did you see what Heskey did to him, I felt like buying the poor lad an ice cream.
  8. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    I don't agree in regards to Bassong at all.

    Against Villa Heskey did get the better of him but then that is what Heskey does &, on form, he'll out muscle some of the best defenders. However, that aside, I thought Bassong was otherwise superb against Villa.

    He was also excellent against Twente & I also thought that he was the only senior player who played well against the Scum & that was never a penalty & it was proper harsh on Seb. You could see how gutted he was by that decision.
  9. BlueCrew LA Moderator

    BlueCrew LA
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    Don't forget the Young Boys match he mad several bad decisions IMO. It could be bad form or bad luck, either way I don't see how anyone could be pleased with his early performances. In just about every game he's played this season he's made an error that has led to a goal. I don't give him a pass for letting Heskey out muscle him, he should have known that Heskey was going to try and do that and positioned himself correctly. I'm not saying drop him but I still think we need more cover.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  10. USpur Well-Known Member

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    I would like to see it tried a few times. VDV, Modric, and Bale should all play and we need to find a formation to utilize them all.
  11. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    By his own admission he had a BAD game in the Young Boys. However, he was not the only 1 & that was his 1st competitive game since the WC & he did not have much of a pre-season. Combine that with the plastic pitch & it at least offers some explanation as to why he was so bad, if not an excuse exactly.

    Also, he might've had a poor game but he still scored a cracking header that facilitated our comeback.

    Tbh, he's been unlucky. Whilst you cannot argue with the stat that he has made 1 error in virtually every game he's played which has lead to a goal, his overall performances have been very good (bar YB) &, at times, excellent. Most central defenders make several mistakes per game & won't get punished yet Seb, for example, did not put a foot wrong against Villa & yet the 1 time he gets out-muscled in what should've been a pretty harmless area of the pitch & it leads to a goal.

    In the CC, had it not been for Seb, we would've been decimated well before the 90min mark. He was superb in the 2nd half & then he exhales a little too briskly in Nasri's direction & concedes a Pen.

    He has a great attitude as well & he doesn't let silly errors effect his game. Often CBs make mistakes & their game will suffer but Seb reacts in absolutely the right way, as he demonstrated in both the Villa & YB game.
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2010
  12. BlueCrew LA Moderator

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    True...:001_005:
  13. BigDub Legend !

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    I'm not sold on this formation as is. It might get the best out of VDV, but I have some serious concerns defensively. We are a side especially prone to the counter attack given the numbers we send forward at times and the attacking nature of our midfield. This formation might make these issues even more prevalent. You are asking a lot of someone like Hutton in such a formation. He has to do the attacking work of a RM and the defending of a RB? Ok, maybe not quite that much, but even so it seems like a lot to ask of a player who we loaned to Sunderland because we thought he had no place in the team.

    Having said that, I would be willing to give it a look, maybe for a half or something just to see how it goes.
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  14. peterthomasyidarmy New Member

    peterthomasyidarmy
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    With the versatility of Hutton it could work, but Bale could leave his wing very exposed. The "wing backs" will have to work their bloody arses off!
  15. rudi New Member

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    I've always been partial to a bit of formationh flexibility, but the 3-5-2 requires three CBs who know each other's game, who train a lot and have had time to learn their, and their colleagues', roles. We can't even get two of the f*ckers out there for two games in a row at the moment!
    rudi,
  16. luminoir Well-Known Member

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    if Hudd or Kaboul is one of the CBs it's possible, as they can push up to DM when necessary.

    It's similar to Bielsa's Chile where his formation always has one defender more than the opponent's frontline and adapts according to opponent shape.
  17. 1van Banned !

    1van
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    I allways liked that formation when playing pro evolution, in real life i have no idea how that would work for this team..

    Corluka can be used as a CB if there is the need for that so he should not have trouble playing the right CB should he ever play in that formation.. Huddlestone and Modric or who ever plays can come back from midfield and help out when needed (others could do the same just to be sure no silly goals happen)..

    If the middle does the job good keeping the ball attacking/defending and wearing down the opponents, no biggie then.. why not try that out sometime.. if you don't try it you will never know how it would work out..

    Harry needs to decide and he should know better what's possible and what not..
    1van,
  18. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    Well, let's put it this way:

    We're all fed up at seeing teams come to WHL, sit deep with 10 men behind the ball & play for the draw & we're all sick of seeing Spurs not cope & fail to break them down. Could this 3-5-2 be the answer in those situations?
  19. berby999 MODERATOR

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    Switch to 3-5-2 may help Tottenham's Rafael Van der Vaart flourish - Barclays Premier League - ESPN Soccernet

  20. Idiot New Member

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    Actually I really like 3-5-2 formation (sentimental reasons)...Is it a risk? Yes it is but changing from 4-4-2 to 4-5-1 is too. Chances that we end up playing it are slim to none.
  21. woolif Member

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    formations at home could be more attacking as the crowd and occasion lifts everyone, i think at home 3-5-2 might work but would need to be sacrificed if the visitors get some steam and score - at the moment i've been impressed by hutton and obviously v-d-v -- but modric is also just getting back to his rhythm and could be a great partner for v-d-v as he's nimble and a great passer.
    as defenses go, spurs really need some consistency and players getting back from injury, the ability to read each others play and get on the same wavelength is invaluable. i do think we need more cover and should buy a top defender in january -- someone young-ish and with a good injury record.
  22. Rui Cardoso Active Member

    Rui Cardoso
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    It would only work if we had 3 quality CB that we could rely on physically. Imagine we start using it with King Dawson and Gallas, all of the sudden 2 of them get injured, which is very likely, that our all defensive consistency would be ruined. It takes a lot more work to organize and to fit in on 3-men defensive line than on a 4-men
  23. Lilywhite74 Moderator

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    I'm not sure I agree with this. With three very central centerhalves, the job becomes much simpler in terms of holding shape and picking out marks, although the stakes are much higher if you fook up.

    On another note, I know most focus on the WBs in the 3-5-2, but for me the holding midfielder is the crucial player. It would require a lot of Hudd, and probably even Modders would wind up playing even deeper than he tends to play now.

    As Bass pointed out, it would be perhaps the ideal formation to unlock these teams that park the bus against us.

    On yet another note, the really refreshing thing about the ESPN Soccernet article is that it seems to take 'Arry seriously as a tactician.
  24. LSB1982 New Member

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    You can't play 3-5-2 against teams invariably playing 4-5-1/4-3-3 0 they will just get the ball inbehind the wing backs and push them further and further back or pulling out the centre backs.

    4-2-3-1 is the way to go, we have the perfect players for that formation

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