Juan Foyth

Discussion in 'Player Chat' started by mr whitey, Jan 27, 2018.

  1. mr whitey Well-Known Member

    mr whitey
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    I thought he showed real promise today. I've been impressed with him in our cup games in general. He's got a very attractive playing style, passing well from the back, marauding forward, but also looks composed defensively. I hope he gets a loan next season. I really don't like our young players sitting on the bench and playing the occasional cup game. I'd rather we got a stop gap as back up to Jan, Toby and Sanchez, as it would allow Foyth to go out and get regular game time in English football. Same is true of KWP.
  2. spursman18 Super Moderators

    spursman18
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    Theres absolutely no point in bringing in a "stop gap" type signing. It would only hinder Foyth's progression into the squad. Dont like the idea of having him go out on loan either, given how new he is to the country and the club. Let him continue to develop with the squad under the guidance of Poch.

    It's not like we plucked this guy from nowhere, he was a regular for Estudiantes playing top level games in their league and in the copa libertadores.

    I'm sure he'll be integrated next season, but will have to be patient for his chances.
  3. mr whitey Well-Known Member

    mr whitey
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    The point of the stop gap is to allow him to play more football and become a senior player quicker. That's why it's a stop gap, to provide cover in case of injuries to allow Foyth to go and play regular senior football. Alternatively we could just use Dier.

    We've got to learn from the past. We can't have another situation like Onomah in the last two seasons and KWP now.

    I just don't see any evidence that young players benefit more from hanging around the 1st team and playing the odd cup game than they do from going out on loan. GKN has largely wasted 18 months.

    I can't think of any youngster we've developed, who made it big time, that didn't either get a decent amount of playing time from the off or that we sent out on loan to get game time. Maybe I'm missing someone obvious, but I can't think of anyone we signed or brought through, that trained with the first team and just got the odd game, before going on to be a star for us. Lennon, Dier and Bale all went straight into being 1st team semi regulars, whilst Rose, Walker and Kane went out on loans.

    I just don't see where this confidence in Poch's desire to keep young players at the club comes from.

    If Toby, Jan and Sanchez are all still here next season, Foyth should be loaned out.
  4. spursman18 Super Moderators

    spursman18
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    Poch doesnt sign "old" stop-gap players (apart from Llorente), especially in our defensive set up where we rely on pace.

    It's not just about playing in cup games, Poch has even said it himself that he would prefer these young players to stay at the club and develop under his guidance. Why? because we have a specific style of football that is drilled into our players and if one player isnt up to speed in that regard its like having a chain and one of the link breaking, it all goes pear-shaped.

    Sure, loans can be beneficial but not in this situation. We have Carter-Vickers who is still apart of the squad who can fill in as that emergency CB (along with Dier) when needed. Just dont see the point in wasting money, wages, and energy in trying to go after someone we dont need. There are more important positions/areas of our team that need to be addressed.

    I'll also add, the most important thing about loans isnt just about the player playing games, but going to a club where they'll be played in their preferred position and that the team players a similar style us. That's why Poch in the past has been reluctant to loan certain players in our squad
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  5. mr whitey Well-Known Member

    mr whitey
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    But I still don't see where the confidence in this working comes from. We've all read POch saying he prefers young players to stay at the club, but there is no evidence that it's a good idea. If, just for example, we take the current top 10 Prem players on whoscored and look at their careers, they were all playing regular first team football at Foyths age and if they weren't getting it at their clubs, they went on loan.

    I just think by far the most important thing for young players is to play games. I think our history with young players shows it and I think it's true of players who go on to be top class in general. I just think Poch is wrong about this, though to be fair, I think the cases of Onomah and Edwards suggest he's becoming more flexible. I think Foyth would benefit way more by going out and playing 30-40 games on loan than he would sticking around here getting a game every now and again in the domestic cups. I think we'd benefit more ourselves.

    Just as a side note, I don't Poch ever saw Stambouli as anything more than a stop gap to give us a bit more depth. He was 24 years old and had never had an international cap and cost less the £5 million. I don't think we ever saw a big future for him.
  6. spursman18 Super Moderators

    spursman18
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    Part of keeping the players at the club is the mystery, we obviously dont see what goes on in training but its apparent Poch prefers it given that he's been reluctant in the past to loan players. He has changed his tone a little bit on this (as you said), as this season has seen some of the players go out on loan as they've been training with the first team for a couple seasons now, but need that first team experience, which I'm all for.

    However, as I said they've got to go to the right club and as we've seen with Onomah/Villa really haven't played him in his preferred position and therefore it doesnt seem like a successful loan. This could happen to Foyth if he does get loaned, not that you can really shift a CB around, but as we've seen with CCV/Sheffield trusted more established players and he's been shifted out. It would make the loan pointless for Foyth, as opposed to staying at the club and containing to learn his trade with more experienced players, especially at this point in his career since he's only just come to the UK. I dont see him playing 30/40 games on loan, I think he'll be fast tracked to the first team unlike any other young players we have, why? because like I said he's played at a high level already. It's only a matter of time before Toby/Jan leave the club and Foyth will most likely step in.
  7. mr whitey Well-Known Member

    mr whitey
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    I agree that is likely, but the way I see it, Foyth will be better prepared to step in if he's played more games in this country. I guess only time will tell.
  8. BC87X Well-Known Member

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    Kid has potential, the way he glided with the ball forward so confident and composed was actually really surprising to me. Still a few kinks in his game, but man I actually think we a gem in him. With a proper pre-season and and some necessary time in the gym to bulk up I can see him get some serious minutes next season. By next season he will also have become more accustomed to England and have a better grasp of the language. I think the future looks very bright for him.
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  9. ehh56 Well-Known Member

    ehh56
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    I believe that training under Pochettino was the whole deal with him coming to England in the first place. He's still his parent's child and so forth. So I don't think they want him going anywhere else. And I agree that he is good enough to get minutes here. It should happen more and more.
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  10. USspur Well-Known Member

    USspur
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    Pochettino said it was “very painful” to leave the 20-year-old centre-back out and called it “a club decision”.
    “It is not only my decision,” he said. “The chairman and the administration, the chief scout. It was a club decision. We don’t have space for everyone in the list.
    “Lucas was an opportunity on the last day of the transfer window and we knew if you bring in a player on the last day, we wouldn’t have the space for some players. It’s very painful but when we signed Juan it was as a potential top player for the future.
    “He is going to play in the FA Cup and different games and we are so happy with his evolution. It is not a big deal, of course he understands – but for me it is very painful because that situation (Lucas) happened and it looks like we don’t have a plan. But we are a club who signs ‘opportunities’.
    “It was a great opportunity for us but in the same way we needed to take a very painful decision.”
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  11. TheSpurEST Well-Known Member

    TheSpurEST
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    Another composed performance from him yesterday. I saw Foyth supporting Dier more than vice versa yesterday.

    Now the youngster has got 8 full games under his belt and given the CB situation, I would almost be tempted to see him start against Huddersfield. But ofc if Poch decides that it is too soon for him (bcause at the same time we need to acknowledge that during his whole career he has played now 16 matches) then I understand and respect the decision.
  12. wilky4uk Active Member

    wilky4uk
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    I like that he has the ability to come out to the full back positions like Toby and Jan do - both defensively and with the ball.
    Shows he trusts his ability and puts him a level above a more orthodox "safe" centre half.
  13. teedee Well-Known Member

    teedee
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    I very much like the look of him and in addition to his composure he has a decent turn of pace.
  14. ehh56 Well-Known Member

    ehh56
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    He really does look like he comes from a different planet.
  15. mr whitey Well-Known Member

    mr whitey
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    He's not in the CL squad, hasn't even been on the bench in the Prem this season and only got a place on the bench for the league cup game. I just can't believe this is the best thing for his development. He's been called into the Argentine squad, so I find it hard to believe there aren't good clubs out there that would have taken him on loan.

    Look at Ali, Dier and Sanchez. They were all young players that Poch quickly integrated into the first team having developed at other clubs. I just don't get his aversion to letting our youngsters develop elsewhere. It's not just about getting them ready for us, as ultimately most younger players wont go on to play a big role and any part at all for us. But their value goes up when they have proven themselves out on loan. Over the years we've sold loads of younger player who didn't really cement a long term career with us for good money and nearly all of them combined their Spurs careers with loan football. The likes of Livermore, Caulker, Townsend, Pritchard, Carroll, O'Hara and Mason, were all sold for very decent money, having developed on loan, before short careers in our first team squad. The sales of these players more than pays for the academy.
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  16. spursman18 Super Moderators

    spursman18
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    There are clubs that wanted him on loan, but the thing is and this goes for KWP's situation as well is that Poch wants these players in and around the team to continue to develop his philosophy on them.

    I know that nothing beats playing competitive games every week but this situation is unique for us. We have a manager who sets his team out to play with a particular style and if these young players go to others clubs and play a completely different type of football then what does it really do for them in the long run if they're just going to come back to us and try to break into the team?
  17. teedee Well-Known Member

    teedee
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    But is that not true of players we buy in?
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  18. mr whitey Well-Known Member

    mr whitey
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  19. AlabamaSpur Well-Known Member

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  20. mr whitey Well-Known Member

    mr whitey
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    I saw that in the summer, has there been a more recent one? I think it would be a great move for him and us.
  21. ehh56 Well-Known Member

    ehh56
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    I think the last straw for him are the reports of interest in other young center backs like Ake. There is a mysterious test that Pochettino uses on his young players. Who knows what it is. Dele, Winks, Sanchez fly right through, while others like Foyth and KWP rot on the vine.
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  22. AlabamaSpur Well-Known Member

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    Juan Foyth considering quitting Spurs in January - Cartilage Free Captain



    Dan Kilpatrick is writing about him leaving. That guy isn't one to just write tabloid fodder, so I'd guess there's something to this.
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  23. Jaggeh Active Member

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    Maybe the plan was to loan him in the summer but Poch thought he may be needed for the first half of the season (WC and all).
    Would make sense and also explain why these stories are popping up again.
  24. ehh56 Well-Known Member

    ehh56
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    Looks like he is pretty much a consensus pick for team of the week.
  25. Binda Well-Known Member

    Binda
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    I would like to see him have a run in the team too. Considering we are coming up on another busy couple of months I think we will see just that.
  26. FLYank Active Member

    FLYank
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    After the international break we have:

    Home vs Chelsea
    Home vs Inter
    @ Arsenal

    Jan won't be fit until mid December. If Sanchez isn't recovered (and you really shouldn't rush a hamstring) then Foyth may start the PL games. He can't play CL so we'll have to get creative for that but he may get his first taste of London derbies.
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  27. ehh56 Well-Known Member

    ehh56
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    And now Foyth given MOTM for Argentina Mexico. I'm so glad things panning out for him. I didn't like to talk of him leaving.
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  28. bfwolf Well-Known Member

    bfwolf
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    I am totally in the “jury is still out” on him. He has been very inconsistent.
  29. Why Do We Bother? Well-Known Member

    Why Do We Bother?
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    Defiantly agree, tho he definitely does look a promising prospect....would love to seem in a back 3 learning the ropes with two senior guys alongside him...I think we have all but abandoned 3 at the back tho:(
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  30. spursman18 Super Moderators

    spursman18
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    What do you expect from a player who hasn’t had a decent run in the team?

    For how little he’s played he’s shown great potential

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