Ross Barkley

Discussion in 'Transfer News' started by RKen, Dec 15, 2016.

  1. BrakeYawSelf Well-Known Member

    BrakeYawSelf
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    He might have been, but I'm not. The pressure Barkley seems to be putting on Everton, along with his insistence on coming to Spurs. Or at least his supposed interest. Combined with Spurs patients or stubbornness, however you want to see it, makes me think Spurs will save a good 10 mil or so when/if the sale finally happens. Everton has lost leverage all ready. They can't be happy about it, but if things continue to go negatively on their end, they might not want to risk further deflation.
  2. Dancubus Well-Known Member

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    I think even £20m for Barkley, who will have 6 months left on his contract, is too much. Everton definitely have lost their leverage, especially as he's already turned down Chelsea. It's not my money, so I wouldn't be mad about it, but I think it's overpaying. I wouldn't be surprised if Levy completely low balled them in January, comfortable in the knowledge that Barkley would choose Spurs in the summer and we'd get him for nothing. Even few million, makes a pretty big difference to a club like ours.
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  3. BrakeYawSelf Well-Known Member

    BrakeYawSelf
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    It's possible. But I think it depends on where Spurs are at in January and how badly MP would want to bring him in. You are right that 20m for 6 months left might be a bit much. But I guess we will have to wait and see.

    Also, 5 years ago, maybe even 3, I would have agreed that a few million makes a pretty big difference to a club like Spurs. But now, after the investment that has been made and the progress under MP, I think there is more flexibility and I think Spurs are capable of losing/spending a bit more money.

    20 million is significant though. But like 5 to 10 million? I'm not as sure. I think that could fall under acceptable risk capital. I mean we spent 30 mil on Sissoko last year, 40 something mil on a 21 year old defender, 12 mil on a nearly completely unknown and inexperienced defender, 30 mil or whatever for Aurier who had some big questions and 12 mil on Llorente with the knowledge there would be no monetary return. The Llorente expense specifically I see as a immediate investment with a return only possible on the field.

    So in that sense, I think Spurs are in a position where they can spend/waste 5 mil here or there, gambling on a player, possibly overpaying a bit to get the target they want or something along those lines. I don't think every Spurs player investment is now about resale value like it used to be. Pretty sure Levy knows at this point that some money will have to be spent with no chance of return if he wants to push the club forward.

    But yea, the 6 month issue is tricky. 20 mil would be a difference maker. But if Everton were smart, and they saw that there was NO chance Barkley would re-sign and that they would get absolutely nothing for him and he would end up at Spurs anyway, I think they could realistically accept an extreme lowball bid. I wasn't considering it prior, because I had forgot he only had 6 months less. But if I were Levy and Spurs, 20 mil might be a bit high, but 10 mil might be low enough to bring him in 6 months earlier with an eye on the 2nd half of the season and the CL if we are still in it.

    If Barkley could actually help Spurs towards winning either of those competitions, it would be well worth the 10mil. IMO at least. I guess a lot will depend on how Barkley returns from injury and what he ends up doing after he does return.
  4. Dancubus Well-Known Member

    Dancubus
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    That's what I mean, though. There's a big difference between £20m, and £5m or £10m. We can have him in the summer for nothing, and the only risk in that would normally be a bigger club jumping in, but he's already turned down Chelsea. I just can't imagine Levy giving them £20m, for essentially a 6 month contract. He'd be right not to. They shouldn't have been asking for the ridiculous money in the first place, before he got injured, and now it's going to cost them heavily.
  5. EliteKiller Well-Known Member

    EliteKiller
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    Get him here in January he can have four months learning the ropes, a full pre-season, and then be good to go for the new stadium, wait until June and he'll be an unfit outsider .... took Sissoko a year to get sorted we can't afford to do that again .....
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  6. BrakeYawSelf Well-Known Member

    BrakeYawSelf
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    Yea in that you are right for sure. I guess I would likely max out at about 10 mil at this point for those 6 months. And that would be Levy being generous. If Everton turned that down, they;d be smackin that gift horse right in the mouth.
  7. Why Do We Bother? Well-Known Member

    Why Do We Bother?
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    We can’t afford him....we have to buy Bale & Modric for David Ginola....;)
  8. ctw01 Well-Known Member

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    If you think clubs are just going to let us pick him up for next to nothing , your badly informed.
  9. Shacklebolt 'Ello

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    Has Barkley officially stated that he wants to come to Spurs? I know there has been several ITK's claiming this.
  10. Yid_1984 Well-Known Member

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    Kane is going to be 200 mil + Modric + Bale if Real Madrid really want him.. so we can have Ross Barkley and another stadium
  11. Jaggeh Active Member

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    IF - and it is an IF - he wants to come here like everywhere is spouting, then what's to stop him turning down ALL offers except ours?

    If Everton refuse to talk to us then they're idiots and we get him for free. Only may need to spend money if we NEED him come January.

    (Ideal outcome: They're all having a dick swinging competition and Everton are blaming the cold. So their masterstroke is to slap Barks in the face by unregistering him from all comps in Jan. It backfires as Barks retaliates by kicking them in the balls and trains here until the end of the season.)
  12. Jaggeh Active Member

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    I'm wondering. Does he really want to come here? I've heard stories about how he want to some here, wants to work with Poch etc. But I haven't heard any obvious quotes or interviews. To be honest, I haven't looked much but I did see this end of Aug article: Exclusive: Ross Barkley turns down chance to join Chelsea 

    It doesn't mention anything about him wanting to come here specifically. Just that when Chelsea went in for him apparently he didn't want to decide his future within hours and would rather wait until Jan (presumably to think about it).

    There's a quote from Everton shareholder saying he pulled out after having a medical. Why not quotes from Barkley?
    But apparently sources close to Barkley say he didn't have a medical.

    So nobody really knows. In all probability he likes the idea of working with Poch and all that entails. And he likes the idea of Chelsea and all that will have to offer. So waiting until Jan may actually be the best course of action for him.

    Translate that to click-bait headlines (IE sensationalised knee-jerk extremist falsehoods) and you get "Wants to join the Poch orgy Shock!" and "Snubs Chelsea Horror!"
  13. bfwolf Well-Known Member

    bfwolf
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    If Levy pays 25M for Ross freakin Barkley in January with 6 months left on his contract, then I’m a monkey’s uncle. Not even in the ballpark of reasonable fees.
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  14. Yid_1984 Well-Known Member

    Yid_1984
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    agree.. Levy would pretty much send Barkley the message that he needs to train and get to match fitness and then join Spurs for free in the summer in time for a full preseason
  15. BrakeYawSelf Well-Known Member

    BrakeYawSelf
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    Yes, I didn't realize he only had 6 months left on his contract at that point and have since in this thread corrected that number. As I stated a couple of times, I would say with 6 months left on his contract, about 10 million would not be out of the question if at that time we need him or he will help us towards our goal of winning the EPL and challenging in the CL. I think even 10 million at that point might be generous, but depending on where Spurs are at that time in these competitions, might just be a quantity Spurs would benefit from sacrificing if it were to lead to success. If by mid-season Spurs look like they really don't need him or are not going to challenge for the EPL and CL, then perhaps 10 mil is too much and it would just warrant waiting. However, it is more likely by January, Spurs are still very much in contention for the EPL and hopefully, but less certainly, the CL. So I think a lot will come down to who is healthy for Spurs at that point.
  16. pistols_at_dawn Well-Known Member

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    Someone explain to me how having less time left on a contract depletes a player's INTRINSIC value. If Ross Barkley is worth 30M pounds, he's worth 30M pounds no matter how much is left on his contract. If someone tries to swoop in and get him for 20M with one day remaining, there should be (theoretically) someone ready to say, "Nope. We'll happily bid 25M, since even *that* is a bargain." Thus driving the price up to where it should naturally settle, the market normalizing itself.

    But apparently it does not work this way, and I do not understand it. It does not make sense.

    (Remember, we bought Sissoko for 30M pounds ON THE LAST DAY OF THE TRANSFER SEASON in a fit of panic. In this case, the player's value arguably INCREASED as the deadline approached.)
  17. bfwolf Well-Known Member

    bfwolf
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    You are generally right in a world of 2 teams having to agree to a contract and that's it.

    The big difference in the world of football is that the footballer has to agree to the sale too. So some other team can swoop in, but if Barkley doesn't want to play there, it doesn't matter. Barkley's supposedly expressed a desire to come to Spurs, so we kind of have Everton over a barrel.

    The last point on this is that some of the money that would normally go to the selling team instead goes to the player in terms of a higher salary. It's risky for a player to run their contract down...if they have a terrible injury that ends their career, they're SOL. They also have to generally accept a lower salary during the latter years of the contract they are running down vs what they could get signing a new contract. But the reward for running down a contract is that they can then engineer a sale to another team for a cut rate and then demand that the team they are sold to pay them a much higher salary to make up for all the money the team saved with the cut rate sale. This help explain why Barkley has supposedly been demanding a salary from us north of 100K pounds a week.
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  18. Mattads1882 Well-Known Member

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    A player's value isn't intrinsic, it's based on what other clubs would pay for that player.
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  19. RaleighSpur Well-Known Member

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    it's down to 2 things:

    1) the bargaining position of the player's current club is greatly diminished if his contract has run down. he can sign on a bosman outside of the UK or wait 6 months for free, you have no power there. unless the player is in great form and subject of a bidding war. not the case here.

    2) the accounting side of things- the player will have almost 0 value on the books by this point. player values, in terms of bookkeeping, are amortized over the duration of their contract. in this case they could sell barkley for £10m and it would show as a "profit" (or "good guy") on the books for everton. regardless of his surmised "value."
  20. bfwolf Well-Known Member

    bfwolf
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    I believe you’ve missed the point Pistols at Dawn was making.

    He’s suggesting (rightly so), that with many potential buyers, Everton’s weak bargaining position should be irrelevant. If multiple teams would be willing to pay 25 million pounds for Barkley with 4 years left on his contract, then the same should be true with 6 months left on his contract. You can say “but they can wait 6 months and pay nothing.” But then one of the teams says “why wait 6 months and compete with all these other teams for his signature on a free? We can pay 5 million for him now.” Then Team 2 says “we’re going to lose Barkley to a team paying just 5 million for him?” And they offer 10. Etc etc until you’re at 25 million—the true market price for Barkley in this example.

    I tried to enumerate in my post why this doesn’t happen: 1) there aren’t necessarily multiple potential buyers because the player has to agree to the sale and the club can’t wait the player out if the offers coming from the players’ short list are weak due to the short contract length and 2) the player on a short contract can demand a higher salary which leads to lower transfer fee offers.
  21. BrakeYawSelf Well-Known Member

    BrakeYawSelf
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    That should be true. But Barkley has all but said he only wants to come to Spurs. He turned down Man City or Chelsea ? I think one of the two. If Barkley indeed will turn down EVERY team except Spurs though, that would put us in a very good and very rare situation. I think it very well could give us the leverage to do as RaleighSpurs suggested. It could really be a take it or leave it offer from Spurs to Everton come January. And Levy might very well like our chances enough to leave it at that and feel confident we will still sign Barkley in the summer.
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  22. bfwolf Well-Known Member

    bfwolf
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    Yes I agree. That was my point #1.
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  23. mr whitey Well-Known Member

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    According ot ITK's on SC, Barkley in the only potential signing in Jan. But I can't see how he's a better option for us the Max Meyer. Barkley is good and I wouldn't be unhappy if we sign him. But if I was a coach, I'd think to myself if I can't make a player with Meyer's attributes and ability into one of the best CM's in the world, then I might as well give up. I really believe he could become the next Modric. Barkley will give us depth and options, but I just can't see the potential for him to ever become world class.
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  24. TheSpurEST Well-Known Member

    TheSpurEST
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    Fook it. We don't need another dodgy player who havent played a game over half a year to take him and coach him and put that much work into it when (I agree) he will never become world class (I mean he will be 24 ((!!)), I have no idea why lot of people suggest that very average players like Barkley or Zaha who are respectively 24 and 25 will raise their game to new level - sure, Poch can coach players but it is much easier to coach younger players, well actually easier and more benefitial as there is more valuable time on top level to squeeze out of them).

    I mean compared to the summer we have Winks now as well! And as a CM I already prefer Winks to Barkley, so why waste the money and resource?

    It would be different thing if we would go after an established CM in January - someone who would have potential to hit the ground running and have immediate impact on the team and results. But don't see that much of point to buy might-become-good-but-not-world-class-good-out-of-form player.
  25. BrakeYawSelf Well-Known Member

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    Barkley was definitely never my first choice. He wasn't even my 5th choice probably. While I thought he could eventually become a very good CM, he might still be better as an AM.

    However, now that Dele is starting to get used more at CM, a position I think he is ideally suited for and where I would want him to eventually establish himself, that possibly leaves room for another AM.

    So if we brought Barkley in, I would rather see Dele play at CM and Barkley at AM I think. But I agree, we definitely don't need him quite as much as we did prior to the emergence of Winks.

    I'm still crossing my fingers for Kovacic though. Slim chance of happening probably.

    I do wonder though. Barkley has all but leveraged his career in an attempt to come to Spurs. He's denied other transfers and refused to sign a new deal with Evertonn. I have to imagine at some point he had some assurance from someone that Spurs would eventually go for him. Not necessarily directly from Spurs organization, maybe a 3rd party. But if next summer comes and Spurs are just like "nah, we don't want you anymore", I wonder what will become of him. I could see it going 1 of 2 ways. Either he signs with another team competing directly with Spurs like Chelsea, ManU, Pool or perhaps even Arsenal and comes back with a vengeance to prove something. Or he goes to a mid table team and becomes the focal point, carving out a nice career for himself. I can't see him returning to Everton after that.

    It would suck though if he went to one of our main competitors and had it in for us every time that team, whichever one it turned out to be, played against Spurs. Because he still has a very high potential in my opinion.
  26. BrakeYawSelf Well-Known Member

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    'Career in severe danger' - Allardyce claims PL star move to Tottenham broke down due to huge demands | thisisfutbol.com

    Think they are probably overstating the "career in danger" part. But that is kind of what I thought. Barkley risked a lot demanding or centering in on a move to Spurs. If it doesn't work out for him, it would be a blow to his current career. I'm sure he would get good money elsewhere though. But I do hope Levy sticks to his guns on this one. Not much concern. Levy always seems to stick to his guns.
  27. USspur Well-Known Member

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    £20m for a player who is just coming back from injury and has 6 months left on his contract / wont re-sign with the club is not a 'smart signing' (financially) as the report states. Max £10m in my books or we get him for free in the summer.

  28. ctw01 Well-Known Member

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    If Everton get Silva as manager Barkley will probably stay,
  29. EliteKiller Well-Known Member

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    I think Poch sees Barkley as a like-for-like player to have in the squad to cover Dele .... or indeed if RM chuck us 200m then we will need a back-up ....

    Barkley could be very good, he's had his moments .... at the right price why not ... but feck any silly demands
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  30. TheSpurEST Well-Known Member

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    I do not believe that Alli and Barkley should be mentioned in one sentence.
    They don't have more in common that they are professional football players and they hold English citizenship.

    If any of our top players from the attacking side would be to leave, we should replace them with players who we see potential of replicating the output of leavers. But replacing Alli with Barkley would be like settling with 7th place on the back of finishing the league as runner ups.

    Alli is 2 years younger and Barkley has never been near the hights where Alli is now, maybe in few years time Poch could help him to progress but this cannot be anything else then well calculated and risky gamble, by no means should we rely on this to actually happen.

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