Waiting for the last minute

Discussion in 'Transfer News' started by basskadet, Aug 25, 2011.

  1. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    we criticise the club so much for waiting till the last minute always before we do our business but I'm not so sure it is as simple as that. Yes there are benefits in that we can save a buck or 2 but I don't think that is the full story and I don't know how much control the club has over the issue.

    Transfers are not about 1 team, it takes 2 to tango as they say. In fact, these days, it takes 3, 4, 5 or more with all the agents and wotnot. I think many teams do know when they have a valuable asset on their hands and, rather than them wanting to hold onto their best players, they want to milk them for all they're worth. Mata is a good example here. Valencia stated that there is no way they'll sell but really they are hoping for competition for his signature and a couple of the big spenders to come in and flash the cash. I think that, no matter what we offer, these clubs don't accept it straight off the bat & indstead go & see what they can get from the Chelsea's & City's of this world. Another aspect is the player himself. He wants to wait and see if a big club, or a rich club, gives him an offer. Again Mata shows this in that he said Spurs were interested but he wanted to wait to see if a club like Chelsea comes in for him.

    We're kind of stuck in this respect. Adebayor said the same thing, that he was waiting to see what Real were going to do before he committed to us. I think that, as the window draws to a close and it becomes increasingly obvious that such an offer is not materialising, the club and player turn back to us.

    Sadly, these clubs will always steal players from under our noses until we start winning silverware and/or paying astronomical fees. Right now we cannot compete financially with the Uniteds/Citys/Chelseas of this world and, whilst we might be an attractive prospect for any player, those of the calibre we now want will always be thinking of these clubs that win silverware. It is no coincidence that Arsenal are in a similar boat even despite them regularly being in the UCL. That does not mean we cannot get these players, that they are "unrealistic" targets, as some like to say, but just that we will have to be a little patient before they sign

    I would not be surprised if we have numerous irons in the fire and we are the ones waiting on those targets. We might well find sudden movement in the market as it draws to a close as players realise what their options actually are, and this applies to those players on their way out the club too.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
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  2. Javi Well-Known Member

    Javi
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    I get what you are saying Bass but still can't help to think things would be done differently IF.....

    Old Arry would stop saying who he is interested in....and possibly stop reuniting with players he has worked with before, reuniting can't feel that good;)
    Negotiations would start maybe a few days before the window opens...
    We all love money and people like DL love it just a bit more than others, not saying we should blindly spend but damn it put some serious cash on serious targets so they know we mean business...
    DL needs to realize he can't make a profit on every player especially our flops....
    Now if both Arry and DL and a few others would pull their heads out of their ass and get along we just might be able to form a decent team.

    We can keep making excuses for the club but the bottom line is the club lacks a pair of these....

    [​IMG]
    Javi,
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  3. falstaff Well-Known Member

    falstaff
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    I don't understand this rush to defend the undertakings of these last few windows or levys handling of them at least. He's not getting it done and its costing us what might be our only chance. Liverpool is coming back with owners that understand that spending equals winning equals profits. Arsenal will be back as well.
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  4. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    Sorry Javi, but I completely disagree.

    I don't think Harry "talking about players we are interested in" has anything to do with anything. Every player has agents and they all offer their player around, it makes zero difference what Harry says and 90% of managers say who they are interested in, just look at Villas-Boas. If anything it helps as the player hears directly from the manager, and publicly, that he is wanted by the club.

    Negotiations DO start as the window opens, in fact they go on even when the window is shut. Again, it is more complicated than us just wanting a player, entering talks and getting him. Sadly, we are not Man United, where as soon as they show their interest the player wants to join. Players want to win titles and silverware and United offer them that. We can't. We're a good team, and we have potential, but United can virtually guarantee medals. City and Chelsea are similar and, if not medals, they can offer serious cash that we cannot get near.

    You could look at Liverpool and the business they did early, but look at the players they brought in. I wouldn't have ANY of them over who we already have at Spurs, altho I might have Adam in our squad.

    We are after TOP players now and they will always be looking first at moves to TOP clubs. I fully believe we talk to clubs and players and get to a certain point but then get stuck as their agents start hawking them about, using our offer to drum up interest. We're then left with the pieces the top clubs don't pick up.

    The 1 acception here is Falcao, as I really feel we could've got him over Atletico. Again tho, I think Atletico had some serious wedge after the sale of Aguero and we couldn't compete.

    I don't think it is about Levy "wanting to make profit from flops" either. Selling Keane shows that. We have a deal agreed with Udinese too for Gio but it is the player holding things up as he wants a move to Seville.This kind of shows the point again.

    We end up waiting on players and their agents. Transfers these days are far more complicated and there are too many people involved standing to make money. However, just the fact that we are showing interest in top players show we do have a set of cojones, but because of our club's current standing, we will just have to wait and be a little patient as, whether we like it or not, I think if we're going to make a big signing it can only happen in the final throws of the window
  5. tdw76 jaws music hee hee

    tdw76
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    I'm sorry but this is rubbish. Their big spending is yet to translate into success, it is far too early to make such a sweeping statement. I'm by no means convinced by liverpools summer spending and I'm certain if we had blown 20m on a player we dont really need there would be far more anger than the current situation we find ourselves in.
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  6. Javi Well-Known Member

    Javi
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    @basskadet

    We will just have to agree to disagree bass, honest amigo I am just sick of making excuses for the club.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
    Javi,
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  7. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    Also, we DO spend money. We've spent LOADS over the years in getting players to get us to where we are & have regularly showed that we are not afraid to spend should the right player show up.

    Thing is, we just have too much going on right now. We need to move players on to free up squad space - we have a lot of players earning more than £30-40kpw and if we sign bigger players on bigger wages who keep these others out our 25man squad it would be akin to flushing money down the toilet, not to mention the atmosphere it would create in the dressing room.

    Before though, when we were splashing the cash, we were bringing in a level of player that effectively matched the level the club was at. We certainly weren't signing players of the quality of winning titles. However, our ambition now is precisely that. We want better than what we've got, we want to level up, and those sort of players will, unfortunately, be looking at the TOP clubs before they look at us. Until we start winning, or paying £200kpw, we'll just have to accept that. It does not mean, however, that we are not trying to bring them in & nor should it mean that we should give up.


    The 1 MAJOR exception is Luis Suarez. I think we could easily have got him ahead of Liverpool but we backed out, & that was a mistake. I can see why we did, it was a massive gamble as there was no real evidence Suarez could fulfil the role we needed, but he has since shown that he can. We move on though.

    Let's just wait and see what happens tho, I think we have learned a lesson from January too that, if we leave things too late they don't go thru, so I fully believe that the hold up is less from our end this time.

    What I do find odd (& perhaps it backs up my argument) is that earlier in the window we were linked with everyone, left, right and centre. Now tho, in the final week, we are barely linked to anyone bar Diarra and Adebayor.

    That might well show that we talked to people earlier on & those deals are on hold for now, perhaps as those players/clubs wait to see all their options. That is a total assumption on my part, but it is logical enough
  8. Javi Well-Known Member

    Javi
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    But if we don't bring in someone with some quality our current top players will get frustrated on the pitch and that itself will not cause a good atmosphere. Our freeing up of space should of begun before the beginning of last season imo it just barely now seems they are getting to it, I know it takes time but we were gonna play CL and that should of hinted that we needed to power up just a bit more. My only expectation of this season was to bring in a striker and maybe a younger back up, just seems like time is flying away. By no means am I giving up on the club I am a yid to death and beyond, but all this talkie talkie and no signy make Javi very unhappy:p.
    Javi,
  9. USpur Well-Known Member

    USpur
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    What if the number is 10-15m? For me Diarra is a player we don't need and the money is better spent on a striker. The idea of ending the window with a holding mid and an old keeper would drive me insane.

    The only strikers, the position we absolutely must improve, that I can think of who would be acquired so close to the deadline are Ade and Llorente. Ade because no team has to replace him and Llorente because the club won't buy someone from outside the region, Citeh and Bilbao will therefore sell at the deadline because they won't need to scramble for a replacement. Trying to buy other strikers this close to the end of the window is near impossible because the selling club won't be able to replace their lost star. While the VDV signing turned out great, the only reason we got him at the deadline is because Madrid didn't need a replacement. We therefore pigeonhole ourselves into looking at a small group of players and clubs who know they can hold us over the fire.
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  10. stead_uk Active Member

    stead_uk
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    what happened to the days where we were signing players like luka, bale and berbs ahead of the big boys?
  11. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    @Javi I agree with that, its a catch-22 in tat respect. However, we simply cannot have 1 player, let alone 2,3 or more, earning more than £30kpw not even in the squad. That is not just unacceptable, it is not financially possible, especially if we're serious about our new stadium.

    Transfers have always been like a domino run, with 1 sale triggering another, and, just like a domino run, the more you have to set up, the longer it takes but, once they start to be knocked over, they all move very quickly. We just have too many to set-up at the moment and that is really where I agree with what you're saying. We should've been more prepared to take hits on these players in the past and to whittle them down more gradually but, because we failed to do that, we are now left with a difficult situation.

    I don't believe the criticism over us not wanting to take hits on these players is still valid, altho we do want near to their market value. However, we have just left ourselves with a lot to do and too many pots on the boil at 1 time.

    I still believe that the club's ambitions are to bring in the sort of players to push us on to the next level but I just do't think we ought to be surprised if getting those players does mean waiting to the last minute and I don't believe the club actually prefer it that way because its "cheaper" either, as Harry's own frustrations have been pretty evident over the window.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
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  12. falstaff Well-Known Member

    falstaff
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    Not fair to say that, we did the same with sandro last year. Maybe these young kids we got will be amazing.
  13. stead_uk Active Member

    stead_uk
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    i hope so i wish we were buying players who are in their prime not players who are past it or of unknown quantities
  14. SibsSpur New Member

    SibsSpur
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    Given Harry's track record of spending money like it isn't his and allegedly pocketing money left right and centre and tax avoidance, it is ay wonder that Levy clearly has his own players and agenda that he is working on. I would guess he has a consultant who he has shown Harry's list too. said consultant has probably gone through and said yes or no and put values on each player - Levy is sticking to that.

    I'd rather finish 6th than 'do a Leeds'
  15. stead_uk Active Member

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    i would like to see what harry has spent in his tenure compared to jol and ramos (DC and arneson) it seems to me he has not had that much financial backing could be wrong tho?
  16. StripiestPilot Well-Known Member

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    I doubt we've been waiting until the last minute. We knew who we wanted before the end of the season. We just have to accept that we are not as attractive a proposition as the rest of the top 6 and therefore if a player is interested in a move, it takes far longer to sort out. There is no way that Levy has been sitting around twiddling his thumbs all summer.

    He probably hasn't had as much money, but he's bought lots of players. Palacios, Defoe, Crouch, Kaboul, Sandro, Van Der Vaart, Pienaar, Kranjcar, Walker, Khumalo, then there are the free transfers.
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
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  17. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    To be fair, neither of Modric or Bale were in their prime, both were unknown quantities at the top level, which is exactly why we won them over the TOP clubs, for that level of player we were prepared to spend the money and go the extra mile that convinced tem to come. At that stage, despite being unknown quantities, they were still better than what we had and we were able to offer 1st team football from the off whereas United and the like no doubt could not and probably did not push as hard as us for players they perhaps did not see as being as vital as we did.

    Again, for the calibre of player we are now trying to attract, that is not the case. Not only that, but we are a little unfortunate in that Chelsea, Liverpool, United and City all appear to be in (slightly differing) modes of transition at the same time, meaning they are all looking at players from the same bracket as ourselves yet they can all afford that little bit more and, in most cases, can offer more chances of silverware

    Its just the way it is sadly and I think, rather than our attempts this summer, we are really paying now for our lack of real investment in January and particularly last summer
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  18. stead_uk Active Member

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    it seemed like a better time back then lol although modric was always gonna be class the way he tore england to shreads in the euro qualifiers
  19. boo Staff Member

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    boo,
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  20. 1van Banned !

    1van
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    About Bale and Modric as signings, didn't that bloke who is at Liverpool now do those signings or something..Damien Comolli is the name says google....

    off topic, his name is damien and he was in london... omen anybody, no?
    1van,
  21. basskadet VIP Member Moderator

    basskadet
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    To be honest, there is debate over exactly who was down to Jol/Ramos, who was down to Levy and who was down to Comolli. By all accounts, Comolli had little to do with Modric, that move was almost exclusively negotiated by Levy.

    Jol was responsible for quite a few more transfers than he is credited for, good or bad. There was a tendency to dismiss those flops as Comolli's doing but that is not entirely the case. The likes of El Hamdaoui and Mido were certainly Jol, as was Boateng. It is difficult to really tell tho what went on behind the scenes at tat time, it all seemed a bit fractious tho and, frankly, a bit of a mess
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  22. 1van Banned !

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    Mess nevers sounds good, but at least there was CL last year so it was not that bad all in all but some more fine tuning would be a progress i believe.

    At least we now know who Commolli didn't sign for Tottenham for the last years, as he got the boot..

    I have also read somewhere that Ramos wanted Modric and Levy was going for it as we see.. I can't see Levy scouting Modric and doing it so to say without Ramos..

    So many stories about who brought who but which one is true, oh well maybe i don't even need to know that or its maybe better not to know it at all...
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2011
    1van,

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