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Discussion in 'Transfer News' started by wilson, Aug 25, 2016.
I appreciate your opinion but we are clearly on a different page when it comes to Zaha
Indeed we are
Well the future will show who was on the right side of things
Fingers crossed we sign him & he becomes the next Ronaldo
Well, that would show me
Though I would not be unhappy, if it would turn our remotely as good.
It's a bit contradictive that you suggest that we shouldn't bother with players from 'weaker sides' and at the same time you want us to sign young talented players. So you're basically suggesting that we should try to sign the best young players from the best clubs? Good luck with that.
The majority of our signings from weaker premier league clubs have been great signings for us. Davies and Trippier for example.
Further more you're comparison with Zaha in relation to the level Alli and Eriksen is on is just a moot point. Unless you're suggesting that we shouldn't bother with players inferior to our best currently best players? We won't be able to sign those kind of players instead we have to develop them ourselves just like we have with Kane, Alli and Eriksen.
Zaha isn't that young though, it's not as though he's 19 or something and missing the final product he's 25 in a couple of days.
Davies and Trippier are squad player and were brought in as such, it's hard to be compare really but they were both more complete players than Zaha is when they signed for us and Davies was significantly younger.
Oh, that was not at all what I meant Just ... I do not want to write huge explanations to each of my post, otherwise they turn out to be 2A4 pages.
So here what I meant was not that we should not buy players from weaker / smaller clubs. Ofc there is a food chain, and most of the purchases we will make come from those below us. I did not mean to say that we should never buy from a side weaker then us. My point was that specifically we should go for players that we believe are very-very talented and can grow a lot with us. Those would rather be players in Bale situation (fairly recently burst to the scene, not really established talent yet) or Alli (had played a lot, but on lower level, club noticed some fundamentally good qualities in them) - you know those were a bit of a mysteries. Zaha has been on the radar and played in EPL for years and is TWENTY FIVE YEARS OF AGE (day after tomorrow). We know his level. Everyone has seen his level. And I do not believe he will raise it significantly - it is very-very-very rare for a player at this age. We know what we are getting and this is not anything remotely close to world level player. It is "best player for relegation-fighting team". His current level is not enough for us to pay 30+ mil for him. Instead I would like us to take a punt on a exiting young player who might fail bad (N'Koudou purchase up to now, Taarabt, dos Santos, Falque, Ceballos, Coulibaly) but also might turn out to be gem (Alli, Dier, Rose, Walker). With buying Zaha we would rather follow the footsteps of Bentley, Sigurdsson and Holtby transactions.
And sure - Tripps and Davies have been so good additions. Very good piece of business. But what I already said once- it is different to buy player from weaker side into defence or to attack side of the game. Defenders of bottom half teams are used to pressure and a lot of work. They are extremely tested, as such teams base their play on compact defending. So additions like Davies, Trippier but also say Scotty Parker have gone very well. While players on the attack side surely look good as they can run in the counter attack in loads of space. Space they will not get in our team and game plan, as most opposite teams come to defend against us.
My comparsion with Eriksen and Alli was not meant that we should only buy better. But aimed at the point how Zaha is supposed to be constantly the best performer for Palace - like in every game. But the point is that we have absolutely no indication if he would be able to produce any performances without getting constant playing time (which he will not get in forseeable future, as Alli and Eriksen are so-so-sooooo far ahead him). On contrary - we have bit of a glimpse what might happen to him without constant playing time - his spell in ManU where he flopped big time. Sure - this was in the past and things might change. But they also might not, and at least as of now I feel I have more of a reason to believe he would get lost in this kind of setting.
Sure, agreed with the point that we need to buy players who we can develop. But suggesting it about Zaha (indirectly indicating that he might be able to grow past Alli for example who is FOUR YEARS younger then the lad and is as comparable in his skills to Zaha as an Dacia Logan is to Bugatti Chevron; or Eriksen who has been playing on very highest level of EPL for 3 seasons yet is same age as Zaha), does not seem realistic one bit. We might be able to develop someone as good as Alli is, but then we have to look for special talent with lot of growing room. Not 25 yo mediocre player who has not proven himself on higher level then relegation-flirting Crystal Palace. Yet he manage to prove that he was not good enough for top team when he was at Alli's age...
I think I'm with you. I think we know what Zaha is for the most part. I don't think he stands a chance of surpassing Dele Alli as you say. I would very much prefer to spend 25-30 million on 5 or 6 young unproven players for 5 mil a piece than 1 established player with an above average but not necessarily elite ceiling. Yes, it's quite probably that 3 or 4 out of those 5 or 6 players will not achieve their potential and will eventually be sold. Yes it's hard to say what you will get out of those 5 or 6 players. But Spurs have a very good track record in finding those gems. They also have a very good track record of at least breaking even on these players when they don't work out. Even profiting off some of them. I have a lot of faith in Spurs scouting when it comes to this and the team has repeatedly taken players who were not hugely hyped and brought them in only to develop them into stars.
This is going all the way back to Bale, who I still say was never an elite prospect. I know some have disagreed with me on that but I just don't remember him ever being in the same prospect pool as players like Martial, Timo Werner and even Jack Wilshere. Heck, I even think Tom Carroll was more hyped as a prospect than Bale was. Same with Marcus Edwards.
Kyle Walker wasn't even the best or most hyped RB named Kyle that we brought in that year.
Dele Alli is another one. I know very few folks that thought Dele was going to be a top player. I read very few reports suggesting it. Not to toot my own horn, but I a long with a few other posters were some of the only folks I can remember claiming we were getting a special player in Dele. Not that I or these other posters could have even imagined him rising to the level he has. I mean I thought he was going to be an excellent, starting 11 potential player. But him becoming what he has is just as much a surprise. Gravy.
Same thing goes for Kane. Perhaps a little more hyped than some of the others. But no one was claiming he would be this good. I don't remember the big clubs coming after him, throwing tens of millions at Spurs like they do for other young prospects from other teams.
Dier is probably in the same boat as all of the above.
And now I think Spurs may have done it again with Harry Winks. All though Winks is more like Kane in that he came through Spurs academy rather than Spurs buying him at a later age. We aren't there yet. There is still a ways to go on him. But No one thought he would have done what he has done and especially so quickly.
Spurs have also spent well on more known young players though that turned out, like Eriksen and Davies. I would say Foyth is probably in this group as well as we spent about the same, 12 million on him as the above 2. Toby wasn't exactly a prospect, but he certainly wasn't a fully established talent. We brought him in for a similar fee around 12 million and he's turned into the best CB in the league. I think Lloris also cost us around 12 million, but he's a bit different because I think he was far more proven. I think we pretty much stole him from Lyon for the price we payed. Dembele probably also, whom I think cost us a similar price from Fullham and was coming off a terrific season.
The few times Spurs have splurged on the more elite prospects, it hasn't always worked out. Lamela took time to find himself in the PL. Modric worked out but it still took him a long adjustment period. Davinson Sanchez is the most we have ever spent on one of the more hyped prospects and we are very lucky that he's working out. That one could have been a huge disaster. But luckily, I think he's every bit as good as advertised.
So yea. Spurs have done very well spending between 5 and 15 million I would say on prospects. I would very much like to see us continue doing so. And if we ever spend more than that on a prospect we better be damn sure we are getting the player we think we are.
We have a far worse track record spending larger sums of money on "proven" talent who have often turned out to be not so proven after all. Son might be one of the few that as really worked out for us, costing like 25 million I think. While Sissoko has been playing better of late, he certainly still isn't the 30 million pound player we thought we were getting.
In the last 5 games Zaha has played as a striker and scored 3 goals.
All good points. I agree with you. Just important to note inflation. Spending 15 million like we did on modric would probably be 30-40 today. And same goes for that 5-15 range you emphasized. So yes look for gems, but not just players no-one has ever heard of with no track record (it's fine if you have to Google them though, Rose). Has to be a balance.
I think you are right about this.
Yes, he seems to play much better without Benteke in front of him, this gives him space to run onto balls.
If you took Alli out and put Zaha we'd still have a very strong attack (and probably 50m in the bank!)
I think I"m coming round to the fact that Zaha could well be that something extra that we lack in the final third, having said that I"ve always been concerned about whether he could cope with the step up to the higher level and expectations .
He is in his comfort zone at Palace where he is allowed to do what he wants, MP wouldnt let him do that so there lies the problem, he"s probably over valued by Palace and there are doubts if he would move , but I would still consider buying him now.
Not picking a fight here because I do enjoy your analysis, but wouldn't Zaha be an example of a player of size and great athleticism who has developed good technique at a later age? Or maybe it's just his smarts that have come on.
Zaha has always had crazy skills. In the past he's lacked making the right runs and decisions. This is him at 19:
His trouble has always been over doing it, running into dead ends and not getting his head up etc. But we can't really continue to hold the accusations about him when he seems to improve his decision making and thus final ball each year. Last year I was reasonably keen on him, but he's kicked on again last year.
It's pretty hard to argue a guy who does this is just pace and power:
This is him against Bournemouth a few weeks ago. He's always going to lose the ball a lot due to taking people on, but there is no doubt his decision making and final ball have come on and hence I don't think people should be judging him as they were a couple of years ago, which often I still think is the case.
This is him against Brighton a couple of weeks ago and I really don't think we'd have seen the run in behind of his headed goal a couple of years ago. He's definitely come on leaps and bounds in that respect and I think he'd improve further under Poch.
He's never going to be technically brilliant crosser or striker of the ball. He's not going to be on free kick duty. But he's always been amazingly skilful and capable of quality with his final ball, but was very inconsistent with it. But he's improved each year he's been back at Palace and I think he's been unfairly written off as someone with similar limitations to say Aaron Lennon.
In my opinion Zaha is a player that Prem league fans in general and slightly reluctant to praise and acknowledge the levels he's reaching as he was written off by many as being too inconsistent and a one trick pony. But I don't think even his biggest critics doubted his technical ability, but more his brain I suppose.
Sorry if there are too many vids etc, but I always like seeing clips of players we are linked with.
I am yet to be totally convinced by Zaha, but his pace really unsettles defenders and if his decision making could be improved he would be a really good player. He would, of course, be surrounded by much better players at Spurs.
£50mil move to City rumoured to be close
No chance he'll go to City for £50m. If City are in for him, Palace are gonna be asking for a lot more than that, for their best player imo.
Honest question here, does anyone really believe we should be even considering shelling out 50+m or about 40% of our transfer budget for Zaha?
No, I think it’s a case of a good player in a poor team. I don’t think he’d be any better than what we currently have
I agree. I watch him and have a really hard time seeing him getting starts in our roster. Who here thinks he is going to displace Alli, Eriksen, or Son?
We’re also not in the position to spend 50 million plus on a player earning 125k a week to be rotated
He is that something different type of player that we dont have, someone who could find a way through when the relentless same old doesnt work in front of goal.
He said yesterday he was happy at Palace, but we"ll see, I think the fee and his wages will be Levy"d if he wants to come though.
About the only thing that's different is his skill level isn't good enough. He doesn't offer anything at all that someone in the squad can't already do, typically better.
He can easily displace Son or Alli. Even Kane if Son played up front. Thats our problem at times. Too many players sat comfy knowing they will play.
We need players in the squad that are good enough to get into the team without weakening it. Can we honestly say our bench does that? Lamela, Moura, Sissoko, Winks, Llorente..... All do a decent job at times but they arent scaring oppositions. Stick Zaha on the pitch and the defenders will be a lot more worried.
We have spent 110 million on Sissoko, Aurier, Moura and Lamela. Moura hasnt had much of a chance in fairness but when he has, hes not done a great deal yet. Lamela has one good game then too many bad ones. Aurier has so far been a waste of money and Sissoko also makes the numbers up. I'd sooner see us spend 60 million on one player, rather than 3 or 4 who might be ok. This is our slight downfall compared to other clubs.
Amazing how slit people are on him. I have to agree with the negative Nancies on this one. I don't think he's skilled or polished enough for us. I do not see him as a starter, though he'd be a great impact sub. I doubt Danny is spending 60 mil on an impact sub. He is not the finisher Son is. I will not even bother comparing him the Eriksen. As far as Dele, he's surely faster. Probably better on the ball taking taking his man on. But does he have Dele's insane competitive nature? He's sense of timing? His fearlessness? His nastiness? He does not. There are certainly players he could improve our attacking mid play, but i don't think Zaha is one of them.
Same old it is then
Zaha has said he wants to stay at Palace
Wilfried Zaha issues huge update on future - and it will disappoint Chelsea, Spurs and Man City - football.london